Discussion:
Using Gedit as the Shoebot IDE?
ricardo lafuente
2009-06-27 14:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi all, here's a thought i had today.

I looked around and found there are stable versions of Gedit for Windows
and OSX (and GNU/Linux, of course).
I tried the OSX version and found it worked rather nicely. Not sure
about the Windows version (Stuart, is it good?)

Gedit's plugin architecture, which is Python-based, allows one to fiddle
with all the elements of the application -- add/remove icons from the
toolbar, set options, run commands, etc. The Shoebot plugin i made a few
weeks ago was pretty easy to code after following the HOWTO documents.

So i was thinking -- is it worth considering the option of using Gedit
as the base for a Shoebot IDE, similar to Processing's sketchbook?
While the IDE that we have now is decent, it is and will be a pain to
maintain... its code is huge! And somehow, it feels like we've made a
lite version of Gedit :) Something that we could as well achieve using a
plugin that could remove undesired interface elements and add new ones.

The only necessary steps for a user would be to
- install Shoebot
- install Gedit
- install the Shoebot plugin for Gedit.

We could have 2 modes for the plugin -- one that extends the
functionality of Gedit, such as the one we have now, and another that
turns Gedit into a minimal sketchbook-like app -- removing other syntax
highlighters and some other irrelevant options in the menus, making it a
Shoebot-oriented editor. Again, i'm thinking about the Processing IDE as
reference: it's a pretty good education tool, since it doesn't have all
of the crud present in a 'regular' text editor. We've done this with our
IDE, but i'm not sure how easy it will be to keep improving on it.

A feature that would be easy to code for Gedit would be to have it
highlight the offending line when there's an error on the script. I'm
sure there's other things that we could come up with :)

Tristan: would you find having this kind of sketchbook-like application
useful for your purposes?

All: does this sound like a stupid idea?

ricardo
Dave Crossland
2009-06-27 14:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Sounds perfect to me
architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>
2009-06-27 14:44:19 UTC
Permalink
The only doubt I have is regarding the error console and system
messages? how can they be displayed in gedit?
f.
Post by Dave Crossland
Sounds perfect to me
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Shoebot-devel mailing listhe
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ricardo lafuente
2009-06-27 15:09:24 UTC
Permalink
i couldn't find a screenshot, but if you activate the 'Python console'
plugin you get a text buffer on the bottom pane of Gedit. We could use
this for output.

we could also have a python/ipython console bound to Shoebot that could
run commands into the Shoebot window. (long-term thinking, as there's
still stuff to be ironed out in the core lib, but still worth considering).

also, the Inkscape plugin could feature a text box where you could input
scripts / load existing scripts and tweak them, and see the result in
the Inkscape canvas. This would actually make the plugin more useful
than it currently is.
Post by architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>
The only doubt I have is regarding the error console and system
messages? how can they be displayed in gedit?
f.
Post by Dave Crossland
Sounds perfect to me
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing listhe
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
ricardo lafuente
2009-06-27 15:14:27 UTC
Permalink
also, see this for the live console example
http://live.gnome.org/Gedit/Plugins/BetterPythonConsole/Walkthrough

it's a gedit plugin that runs the python code that you wrote in the
editor, then pops a console where you can input further commands, as
well as see error output.

i like the idea of the output buffer being in the bottom pane though
(going along with Processing and Drawbot, and Nodebox as well IIRC), but
this still looks like a cool possibility.
Post by ricardo lafuente
i couldn't find a screenshot, but if you activate the 'Python console'
plugin you get a text buffer on the bottom pane of Gedit. We could use
this for output.
we could also have a python/ipython console bound to Shoebot that
could run commands into the Shoebot window. (long-term thinking, as
there's still stuff to be ironed out in the core lib, but still worth
considering).
also, the Inkscape plugin could feature a text box where you could
input scripts / load existing scripts and tweak them, and see the
result in the Inkscape canvas. This would actually make the plugin
more useful than it currently is.
Post by architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>
The only doubt I have is regarding the error console and system
messages? how can they be displayed in gedit?
f.
Post by Dave Crossland
Sounds perfect to me
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing listhe
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>
2009-06-27 15:36:04 UTC
Permalink
nice examples, that could work I think. :)
when I coded the error console for sb ide, the first version was at the
bottom of the ide, but with modern wide monitors that tend to have a
landscape ratio, it seemed a better idea to have it on the right side.
Post by ricardo lafuente
also, see this for the live console example
http://live.gnome.org/Gedit/Plugins/BetterPythonConsole/Walkthrough
it's a gedit plugin that runs the python code that you wrote in the
editor, then pops a console where you can input further commands, as
well as see error output.
i like the idea of the output buffer being in the bottom pane though
(going along with Processing and Drawbot, and Nodebox as well IIRC),
but this still looks like a cool possibility.
Post by ricardo lafuente
i couldn't find a screenshot, but if you activate the 'Python
console' plugin you get a text buffer on the bottom pane of Gedit.
We could use this for output.
we could also have a python/ipython console bound to Shoebot that
could run commands into the Shoebot window. (long-term thinking, as
there's still stuff to be ironed out in the core lib, but still
worth considering).
also, the Inkscape plugin could feature a text box where you could
input scripts / load existing scripts and tweak them, and see the
result in the Inkscape canvas. This would actually make the plugin
more useful than it currently is.
Post by architetto francesco fantoni <hva - hermanitos verdes architetti>
The only doubt I have is regarding the error console and system
messages? how can they be displayed in gedit?
f.
Post by Dave Crossland
Sounds perfect to me
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing listhe
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
____________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
_______________________________________________
Shoebot-devel mailing list
http://lists.tinkerhouse.net/listinfo.cgi/shoebot-devel-tinkerhouse.net
tristan@hxgraphics
2009-06-27 17:40:54 UTC
Permalink
Hi Ricardo

The idea sounds great.

I think an integrated error console is vital, and placing it in the bottom
or right pane would be perfect (this was something I was planning to try and
get Geany to do). The code hints and automatic indenting in Geany certainly
provide for a more attractive "learn-to-program" application -- I was taking
a look at some of the Gedit plugins, and it looks as if it can be configured
to provide similar functionality.

Removing the undesired interface elements and adding Shoebot buttons will
make the application less intimidating for beginner programmers and
designers. I'm still keen on a 'portable' Windows version -- of course this
should work with Gedit as well.
--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Using-Gedit-as-the-Shoebot-IDE--tp3166466p3167239.html
Sent from the ShoeBot mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
ricardo lafuente
2009-06-27 18:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@hxgraphics
I think an integrated error console is vital, and placing it in the bottom
or right pane would be perfect (this was something I was planning to try and
get Geany to do). The code hints and automatic indenting in Geany certainly
provide for a more attractive "learn-to-program" application -- I was taking
a look at some of the Gedit plugins, and it looks as if it can be configured
to provide similar functionality.
Gedit has support for auto-indentation, and if i remember correctly,
command completion as well (is this what you meant by code hints?).
Taking the cue from Francesco, it would be nice to know if it's possible
to have the side-pane on the right (it's on the left by default), to be
used as error console, interactive console, class browser and whatever
we feel like putting into it; after some quick googling, i haven't found
a way to place the side pane on the right, i'll ask on their mailing
list. Having it on the bottom, on the other hand, shouldn't take much work.
Post by ***@hxgraphics
Removing the undesired interface elements and adding Shoebot buttons will
make the application less intimidating for beginner programmers and
designers.
Yes -- i think their plugin architecture allows for removing any
interface element; so doing away with menu and toolbar items we don't
need might be just what we need to make a newbie-friendly IDE.
Post by ***@hxgraphics
I'm still keen on a 'portable' Windows version -- of course this
should work with Gedit as well.
I think that will be possible -- would be great to have portable
versions to other platforms as well!

So i guess i'll have to start reading and hacking :) I still have some
work to catch up to, and some bugs in the development version to fix,
but i'll look into this as soon as possible. I'd love to have a quick,
reliable little app to finally make some scripts, instead of hacking in
the core code :o)

And if anyone wants to get into this as well, check the existing Gedit
plugin -- in the new branch at
http://bitbucket.org/rlafuente/shoebot-filestructure , inside the
extensions/ dir. For starters, the Gedit plugin Howto is perfect to get
you going: http://live.gnome.org/Gedit/PythonPluginHowTo . And it's
really easy stuff -- this Linux Magazine article also explains briefly
how to play with the Gedit plugin API, Firebug-style:
http://www.linux-mag.com/id/5982 . Finally, check the existing plug-ins
for great examples of what can be done (and we could integrate any
number of them into our to-be-coded IDE):
http://live.gnome.org/Gedit/Plugins .

Cheers!
Stuart Axon
2009-06-27 19:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Sounds great to me



----- Original Message ----
From: ricardo lafuente <***@sollec.org>
To: shoebot mailing list <shoebot-devel-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:03:01 PM
Subject: [shoebot-devel] Using Gedit as the Shoebot IDE?

Hi all, here's a thought i had today.

I looked around and found there are stable versions of Gedit for Windows and OSX (and GNU/Linux, of course).
I tried the OSX version and found it worked rather nicely. Not sure about the Windows version (Stuart, is it good?)

Gedit's plugin architecture, which is Python-based, allows one to fiddle with all the elements of the application -- add/remove icons from the toolbar, set options, run commands, etc. The Shoebot plugin i made a few weeks ago was pretty easy to code after following the HOWTO documents.

So i was thinking -- is it worth considering the option of using Gedit as the base for a Shoebot IDE, similar to Processing's sketchbook?
While the IDE that we have now is decent, it is and will be a pain to maintain... its code is huge! And somehow, it feels like we've made a lite version of Gedit :) Something that we could as well achieve using a plugin that could remove undesired interface elements and add new ones.

The only necessary steps for a user would be to
- install Shoebot
- install Gedit
- install the Shoebot plugin for Gedit.

We could have 2 modes for the plugin -- one that extends the functionality of Gedit, such as the one we have now, and another that turns Gedit into a minimal sketchbook-like app -- removing other syntax highlighters and some other irrelevant options in the menus, making it a Shoebot-oriented editor. Again, i'm thinking about the Processing IDE as reference: it's a pretty good education tool, since it doesn't have all of the crud present in a 'regular' text editor. We've done this with our IDE, but i'm not sure how easy it will be to keep improving on it.

A feature that would be easy to code for Gedit would be to have it highlight the offending line when there's an error on the script. I'm sure there's other things that we could come up with :)

Tristan: would you find having this kind of sketchbook-like application useful for your purposes?

All: does this sound like a stupid idea?

ricardo
Stuart Axon
2009-06-29 19:22:16 UTC
Permalink
How about we treat the IDE as deprecated + decomission it as soon as some change breaks it?

Probably win32 gedit will get sprout python support fairly soon. If we get to the point we feel like it's ready for a big launch and a windows editor isn't ready, we could consider a plugin for something like jedit (or even IDLE if this is possible) as an interim solution.

In this way we can avoid the ide becoming a tax on shoebot.



----- Original Message ----
From: Stuart Axon <stuaxo2-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: shoebot-devel-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:38:18 PM
Subject: Re: [shoebot-devel] Using Gedit as the Shoebot IDE?


Sounds great to me



----- Original Message ----
From: ricardo lafuente <***@sollec.org>
To: shoebot mailing list <shoebot-devel-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:03:01 PM
Subject: [shoebot-devel] Using Gedit as the Shoebot IDE?

Hi all, here's a thought i had today.

I looked around and found there are stable versions of Gedit for Windows and OSX (and GNU/Linux, of course).
I tried the OSX version and found it worked rather nicely. Not sure about the Windows version (Stuart, is it good?)

Gedit's plugin architecture, which is Python-based, allows one to fiddle with all the elements of the application -- add/remove icons from the toolbar, set options, run commands, etc. The Shoebot plugin i made a few weeks ago was pretty easy to code after following the HOWTO documents.

So i was thinking -- is it worth considering the option of using Gedit as the base for a Shoebot IDE, similar to Processing's sketchbook?
While the IDE that we have now is decent, it is and will be a pain to maintain... its code is huge! And somehow, it feels like we've made a lite version of Gedit :) Something that we could as well achieve using a plugin that could remove undesired interface elements and add new ones.

The only necessary steps for a user would be to
- install Shoebot
- install Gedit
- install the Shoebot plugin for Gedit.

We could have 2 modes for the plugin -- one that extends the functionality of Gedit, such as the one we have now, and another that turns Gedit into a minimal sketchbook-like app -- removing other syntax highlighters and some other irrelevant options in the menus, making it a Shoebot-oriented editor. Again, i'm thinking about the Processing IDE as reference: it's a pretty good education tool, since it doesn't have all of the crud present in a 'regular' text editor. We've done this with our IDE, but i'm not sure how easy it will be to keep improving on it.

A feature that would be easy to code for Gedit would be to have it highlight the offending line when there's an error on the script. I'm sure there's other things that we could come up with :)

Tristan: would you find having this kind of sketchbook-like application useful for your purposes?

All: does this sound like a stupid idea?

ricardo

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